Si toutefois des hommes et des femmes font des efforts considérables pour venir en Europe au point de risquer leur vies, ce n'est pas que pour bénéficier de notre système social, qui dans certains pays comme la France est en train de se dégrader. C'est pour travailler. Ce sont les "meilleurs" de leur pays qui émigrent, c'est une chance pour nous!

 J'aimerai disposer des chiffres pour pouvoir contrer, voir combattre ceux qui ont peur de l'autre, celui qui par sa culture, par son faciès est différent. Cette peur est peut-être "naturelle", "ils" sont différents. J'ai lu quelque part que 2,5 millions de personnes viennent en Europe chaque année, ça peut paraître beaucoup, mais ça ne représente que 0,5% de notre population de presque 500 millions. Sur ces 2,5 millions, 2 millions arrivent en forme régulière. Ils viennent pour étudier, pour travailler, pour retrouver leur famille, et ils travaillent. Seulement 0,1% vient illégalement. Avons nous besoin de faire une "directive de la honte" pour ce pourcentage infime de migrants? Quelle est la proportion qui ne s'intègre pas? 

On avance souvent des arguments économiques: "ils nous coûtent cher".  Le coût d'un enfant en maternelle est bien supérieur à celui d'un étudiant universitaire. Le migrant arrive prêt pour travailler, nous épargnant les coûts de formation. 

Le migrant sans papiers est forcé de travailler au noir. Il est moins cher que le travailleur légal. Là se trouve l'hypocrisie de notre sociéte. Les grandes entreprises font appel à des sous-traitants qui forcés de reduire leurs coûts font appel aux illégaux; une manière de contourner la loi.

La directive retour comporte des volets inacceptables, mais elle à le mérite d'exister. 18 mois de retention maximale paraît trop long, mais 9 pays membres n'avaient pas de limite du tout! et cette histoire de renvoyer des enfants même à des pays qui n'ont jamais été les leurs!

 Faisons confiance à nos parlementaires pour humaniser ce texte qui comporte des volets qui nous font honte, mais ne laissons pas les euroceptiques dans notre sein profiter pour taper sur l'Europe, sans distiguer entre la droite et la gauche!

Carlos 

I also agree very much that Europe shouldn't 'blindly' compare itself to the US, as many politicians do in the debate about fees. Yes, US universities might be richer - but are they really the right role model for European universities?  Social and educational systems are very, very different in Europe and the US. We shouldn't forget our own values while developing our universities and educational system.

 I like the comments made here, it reflects the tough spot Europe is facing now. I work at a university, therefore this blog entry interests me. I agree there seems to be a push to tuition fees on a European level, because "that's the way they do it in the States, and look where the best universities are". That has nothing to do with quality though, as the worst universities can also be found there. 

What the effects of tuition fees are, for equality among social classes and the quality of education, is not very clear. But it could be assessed. From the experience in the United States, it is clear that exorbitant tuition fees create a disadvantaged situation for less wealthy people. 

Another argument raised is that a tuition fee would that really instigate students to work harder. I think that a focus on small class teaching, mandatory participation, and having to make assignments throughout the year would do a good job too. Parents pay tuition fees anyway, in the majority of cases. So that argument does not convince me either.

 The argument that in fact the tax payer pays the education of the higher classes does hold, i think. It is a real concern. As students are the main beneficiairies of the education they enjoy, they could pay some of it themselves, to relieve the burden on the tax payer and support the universities who are struggeling financially. In my view, only small tuition fees can be justified by this reasoning though, to create an optimal balance with the social concerns raised in this blog. 

It would however be good to get some clear data on the influence of tuition fees. We have experience with a diverse palet of situations now. In Germany, the situation changed, and tuition fees can now be charged. Did that really have an effect on admissions, quality of education, etc? In the UK, does the educational system increase the gap between social classes? These things can be empirically tested. Of course, situations across countries differ, as do habits, social norms, etc. What holds in Germany might not hold in Italy. But it can be an indication. It is better than looking at the States, which is a totally different situation all together.

 In general, Europe embraces social values throughout all it's actions. This is the thing that sets Europe apart from the US. Let's continue to embrace these values, but look critically at our actions. If we want to increase the quality of our educational institutions, let's first get rid of nepotism in hiring new professors, install tenure tracks, and assess university staff on their quality, not on their connections. And then, look at how we teach students. Oral exams with no external supervision invite nepotism. Lectures for 700 students, and no mandatory participation in small teaching units invites an undesirable inactive attitude among students. Demand participation and quality from students, and you will get it from them. This does require additional funding, that is true, at that makes me consider charging small tuition fees as not too bad. Large tuition fees however cannot be justified, the money raised should be spent by universities in a way that benefits the students. And again, I would like to see the data on the effect of recent changes in tuition fee policies throughout Europe.

I especially appreciated the presentation and ideas from Sonja, put forward in the workshop on democracy and diversity. I agree that we can learn from Zapatero's victory in Spain: parties can win elections on campaigning for women's rights and equality between the genders!

 Il y a cependant un travail énorme à réaliser pour faire en sorte que notre public, les gens pour lesquels nous nous battons (les classes moyennes, les classes populaires et les exclus pour faire court), perçoivent les enjeux qui sont devant l'Union et quel rôle ils peuvent jouer.

Studiing at university has a lot of cost for the families. Not only the tuition fee must be considerated. Denmanrk is a small country comparated with Spain, Germany or France. If someone who lives in one of the extremes of his country (if you includes isles, the problem increases), wants to study in a Univertsity in the other extreme, has huge costs, living, maintenance.... My proposal of secundary scholarships in function of results are to cover this costs.

More serious Bosnian example one can see ICTY/Haag tribunal.  Serbs are accused of murdering Croats and Bosnian muslims, Croats are accused of killing Bosnian muslims and Serbs and Bosnian muslims are accused murdering Serbs and Croats.  Where is national identity or do we need it in common Europe? 

Each country has their history, should it be remembered or put behind?  In my opinion the core question is to separate which actionlines are best to make together Europe/global wide and which are best to be managed at local level.

I've never been a big fan of economic incentives for making people study harder - because I'm concerned that it can backlash on vulnerable groups (e.g. if you're a student and go through a depression or a family crisis - should that cost you the scholarship?). Further, my starting-point is - unlike many of those who argue in favour of economic punishment - that students start university, because they want to learn, and if they loose that motivation, then something 'went wrong'; either in their private life or at their place of study. Therefore, I favour (investment in) improvements at the universities; training of teachers in didactics, more councelling and contact hours, better possibilities for studying on campus (in Denmark students study from home a lot, many only have classes 15 hours a week), etc. etc.

 So... the conclusion is that I don't think economic 'punishment' will do a lot of good to student performance and I wouldn't favour scholarships which works this way. 

I guess this was a bit out of the scope of the Yourspace manifesto debate, but interesting discussion nevertheless :-) 

Remember that there is a mediterranean Europe which is much closer in its perspective to North Africa than Scandinavian member-states. We have divided countries like Ireland and Cyprus, we have very low population States (Malta, Luxembourg, Eesti) and numerous ones (Deutschland, France, GB, Italia).

Some of our member-states have been small inland kingdoms when other have been colonial empires. Each european country have been historicaly a dominant world player (Greece, Roma, España, Portugal, France, Österreich, GB but also NL and Poles could remember everybody that the Kingdom of Poland and Lithuania was the largest Kingdom Europe has ever known).

So, this identity question is a crucial one. The big issue, in order to get a better turnout, is to rise european awarness. The paradox comes from the fact that you have to listened to foreigners (like Jeremy RIFKIN in "The European Dream") to discover how efficient, how competitive, how fair are our economy, our entreprises, our social net. Till now and for a large majority —but, it is changing— Europe was a non-object.

Slowly, people is owning this new dimension. Again, more and more people are moving across their continent. New questions arise: how can I benefit from my social protection? How may I keep, for my pension, those years worked elsewhere than my native place? Under which law should I break my binational marriage (remember that in Malta, divorce still not exists)? Why I can abort in NL but not in Poland?

European Union means Peace by joining, sharing our national sovereignities. To achieve that, Democracy is a crucial point. Are we ready to accept a frame broader than the national one? When speaking about a Maltese, a Slovenian, an Hungarian, a French, etc, do we see a "foreigner" or a co-citizen? Nobody will complain if a big factory is closing its doors in Timisoara to open them in Constanza. But, if the same company move to Varna, then all the politicians, the inhabitants are shouting, complaining. Why? its is just few kilometers southward. The reality is people are reluctant to share if they feel there is no return, no advantage for themselves directly or not. And, this mainstream spirit is confronting our core values of solidarity, shareness, fraternity. It is definitely challenging... let's engage in the battle !!!

Je pense que les trois propositions du SP.a sont très intéressantes et qu’elles devraient être incluses dans le manifeste 2009. Des propositions allant dans le même sens sont reprises dans les contributions venant des militants de Charleroi et Namur.

 Joël

i wish to specify more aboy my proposal... My proposal includes two differents scholarships, One of them in function of the incomes (for paying the tuition fees) and the other one in funtions of the results for paying books, housing...

incomes - this variable must be so studied. the main variable must be incomes per capita in each family, and comparing this with a average incomes in own country. We have to implements the correct tools to avoid tricks and give scholarships to people the don't need it

grades - i'm agree with you that not neccesary the best people in high school has the better results in the university (personally i'm an example of that). This point could be articulated like loans at the beggining of each academic course. If the studentes reach the objetives, he won'n to repay the loan. If he has a medium grade, the loan must be without interest and the student who his results are the simple pass or not pass the exams, he must repay the loan with legal interests.

By the other side, i'm agree with capelo, maintaining low fees with public financiation of unversity and rpomoving the self-financiation with researching and spin-offs.

regards

I'm nos agree with the free tuituion fees. Maybe in small countries can be possible, but it could be very difficult to aply in a 500 Millions of people country.

I thing it's better to make a strong system os scholarships, based on a double component , the personal incomes and the effort and the results in the studies. In this way, we are promoving acces to high studies to people with low incomes and by the other side, "excellent" people have an extra incentive to the best students.

PS. Sorry for my horrible english...